On Finding Repair and Relief from the Commodification of Social Design: Systemic Failures, Political Polarization, and the Erosion of Trust

This episode features Rob Johnson, President of the Institute for New Economic Thinking, discussing the profound systemic failures in economic, financial, and political systems that have led to widespread distrust and polarization. Johnson shares his unique background, including his time in the music business, highlighting how music provided a "spirit compass" and a sense of truth that often eludes the mechanics of finance and government. He argues that the resistance to critical issues like climate change stems not from denial of danger, but from a deep-seated lack of trust in the system's ability to implement transformative change equitably, leaving many behind, as seen in the decline of industrial cities.

The conversation delves into the historical shift in political trust, from the New Deal era's faith in government to a contemporary landscape where both the left and right have lost faith in their traditional institutions. This erosion of trust is largely attributed to the escalating role of money in politics, which has captured governance and transformed the nature of political campaigns. The hosts discuss Nancy Fraser's concept of "progressive neoliberalism," where the Democratic party, while championing social and identity issues, fails to deliver on fundamental economic justice for the working class, leading to resentment and a sense of being overlooked, as articulated in Arlie Hochschild's "deep story." This dynamic creates a political environment where parties are forced to kick "field goals" rather than score "touchdowns," leaving no one truly satisfied.

The economic consequences of this systemic breakdown are explored, including the impact of globalization, automation, and machine learning on the decline of the middle class and the rise of a bifurcated service-based economy. The failure of the public education system to provide an escalator to high-margin services exacerbates inequality, leading to what Angus Deaton and Anne Case termed "deaths of despair" in regions suffering economic downturns. Neoliberalism, defined as a "market romance" that emphasizes individual responsibility and denies collective systemic design, serves as a convenient ideology for politicians reliant on wealthy donors, further entrenching the illusion that the market alone provides vitality and efficiency without moral accountability.

Ultimately, the podcast warns of the dangers of this "inversion" where capital governs democracy, leading to a breakdown of moral legitimacy and rampant unresponsiveness. The fear and despair generated by these conditions risk pushing societies towards authoritarian alternatives rather than inclusive democratic healing. The speakers emphasize that addressing historical injustices, such as the legacy of slavery, is essential but must be part of a broader, more inclusive agenda that ensures everyone's "ship isn't sinking." Without restoring ethical balance, reforming campaign finance, and fostering genuine collective responsibility, the massive transformations required for challenges like climate change will remain unattainable, further fracturing an already polarized society.

the resistance to the obvious dangers of climate come from the people who don't trust the system to create transformational energy so that we're all better off

the music was more truthful than words and so that which you might call spirit compass was a very very big part of my childhood

an election there might be a lesser of two evils but there was a systemic structure that was largely broken

the role of money in politics had overridden the legitimacy of governance and that has really scrambled our deck

if you're going to thrive you have to raise money now you gotta find donors and that transformed the the very nature of politics

when there is nothing on the menu anybody wants to order they don't go out to dinner

people blame others when they're scared and the destruction

this is this is really a problem because about 70 percent of the population is going to be in these low margin services and these white people are destroying their own ladder because they're distracted in a way that you and I've talked about nancy frazier in a wonderful illuminating pamphlet talked about the substitution of identity politics for focus on economic structure

your funders are now wall street and and big corporations and wealthy individuals in silicon valley and silicon valley exactly hollywood well in hollywood yeah exactly and yet you you speak as you said identity politics women gender issues and race and so on but it means that you can make progress socially you can make progress culturally but you won't really change the money issues

when you do that it becomes logical in pursuit of that goal to rig the rules you play by the return for the stockholder is going to be improved if you can use your wealth and your influence to rig the rules and that's what corporations have done

the idea of capitalism is that it is embedded in a democracy that governs it to give it its moral legitimacy and when the servant becomes the master... then the moral legitimacy of the system breaks down

400 years in slavery in the united states is the absolute contradiction of our founding principles that's most vivid and repairing that whether you call it reparations or what is necessary to our rebalancing

when everybody else's ship is sinking too they're not going to say you can take care of them while I drowned you've got to do something much more broad-based which includes that necessary condition

the danger of fear leading to an authoritarian alternative rather than the healing in an inclusive democratic alternative is upon us