The US's Shift from Primacy to World Order: A Critique of American Foreign Policy as Security Policy

This podcast episode, featuring Rob Johnson and Patrick Lawrence, critically examines the trajectory of US foreign policy since the post-World War II era, arguing that the US has consistently prioritized "primacy" and "security policy" over a genuine "world order policy." Drawing heavily on Stanley Hoffman's 1978 book "Primacy in World Order," Lawrence contends that the US made a fundamental choice after Vietnam to maintain its hegemonic position rather than adapt to a multi-polar world. This insistence on unilateral power, driven by factors like zero-sum thinking, nostalgia for a simpler past, and a lack of diplomatic capacity, has led to a sclerotic foreign policy apparatus incapable of imaginative or creative engagement with global challenges. The discussion highlights a deep-seated reluctance in Washington to re-examine its circumstances or develop the courage needed for a new direction, leading to a perpetuation of outdated approaches.

A central distinction made is between a "world order policy" as a dynamic "process" reflecting global realities and the US's static, imposed vision of order. The speakers lament Washington's inability to think new thoughts, attributing it to the nature of power, which makes its possessors reluctant to surrender influence, and a national nostalgia that prevents embracing the present. Furthermore, the US is characterized as having developed a "security policy" rather than a true "foreign policy" for decades, relying on its strength and thus neglecting diplomacy and the cultivation of sophisticated diplomatic skills. This technocratic approach, focused on "how" rather than "why," often overlooks the cultural, historical, and psychological dimensions of other nations, leading to profound misunderstandings and ineffective engagement.

Practical insights emphasize the critical need for empathy and understanding the "other side's point of view" in international relations. Drawing parallels to personal relationships, the discussion suggests that changing one's awareness of another party, rather than attempting to change them, is crucial for progress. The current Ukraine crisis is presented as a prime example where Washington's lack of interest in understanding Russia's perspective is both unproductive and unprofessional. The speakers advocate for a shift from a "we-they" discourse to one that acknowledges the humanity and aspirations of diverse peoples, moving beyond the "propagandistic wall" that often obscures nuanced realities.

Broader implications include the domestic burdens imposed by the pretense of primacy, leading to social disorder and infrastructure problems at home, and the "loneliness" of a hegemon that receives no help in decision-making. The conversation touches on the psychological dimensions of national behavior, including the concept of America as a "chosen, providentially favored nation" and the distinction between a "nation of destiny" and a "nation of purpose." The episode concludes by stressing that a true "world order" would involve "harmony amid cacophony," where a multiplicity of voices contributes to global solutions, ultimately lightening the burdens on all nations, including the US, and fostering mutual respect and dignity in a multi-polar world.

"one of the first things a good diplomat needs to be able to do is to understand the other side so that one's responses one's interactions and exchanges and conclusions and communiques and so on and so forth right reflect that and you can actually progress"

"primacy in world order it's a rather stark binary"

"we americans had a choice we could continue to pursue the primacy we elaborated rather swiftly after the 1945 victories... or we could develop what hoffman called a world order policy"

"world order is not a policy it's a process"

"for 70 years the policy cliques in washington did not have to think it was just do more of the same... We didn't need a foreign policy and we didn't have one we had a security policy"

"diplomacy is for the weak the strong have no need for it"

"we have to develop the capacity to see from the perspective of others we have to dispense with we they"

"if people aren't ready they're not gonna get it done"

"harmony amid cacophony"

"we're a nation of destiny if you're a nation of destiny you don't have to ask any why questions... we must become a nation of purpose"

"when you shame somebody or when you threaten somebody it makes it worse"

"it is imperative upon us as a people as a nation-state as as properly professional diplomats and statesmen to develop the capacity to see how the world looks from behind the eyes of other people"