The Shaman's Call: Finding Authentic Vocation Through Jungian Dreamwork and William Everson's Teachings

This episode features Rob Johnson of the Institute for New Economic Thinking in conversation with Jungian psychologist Steven Herman, author of "The Shaman's Call." The discussion centers on the profound influence of poet William Everson, Herman's former teacher at UC Santa Cruz, and Everson's unique course, "Birth of a Poet." Everson, a former Dominican monk and beat poet, taught students to discern their true vocational calling by exploring their inner voice, or "daemon," through Jungian dream interpretation. The core argument is that conventional career paths often lead to conformity rather than satisfaction, and that the unconscious mind, particularly through dreams, offers a wiser, instinctual guide to one's authentic destiny, much like animal migration patterns.

The conversation delves into key Jungian concepts, emphasizing the unconscious's role in shaping human destiny, often overriding the conscious ego. Dreams are presented as a vital mechanism through which latent potentials and vocational archetypes are activated, providing prospective guidance for the future. Herman details Everson's meditative teaching style, which fostered an environment of deep introspection and self-discovery, contrasting it with traditional lecture-based learning. This method aimed to soften the ego's defenses, allowing symbolic messages from the unconscious to emerge, a process Everson believed was akin to God speaking through symbols.

Practical insights include the discipline of dream journaling and incubation techniques to enhance dream recall and understanding. The discussion also explores the encounter with the Shadow—the unconscious negative aspects of personality—as a necessary step in self-discovery, and the concept of numinosity associated with archetypal experiences. Synchronicity, the meaningful acausal connection between inner psychic states and outer events, is highlighted as a confirmation of being on one's true path, with Herman sharing personal anecdotes involving dream animals.

Broader implications extend beyond individual career choices to societal and political dynamics. Everson's insights into the "national unconscious" and the "hostile brother motif" (e.g., Cain and Abel, Republican vs. Democrat) are discussed in the context of political unrest and the shadow's potential to derail collective destiny. The episode underscores the heroic courage required to live authentically and the prophetic role of poets and shamans in foreseeing societal trends, connecting these ideas to economic thought on radical uncertainty and the dangers of "false consciousness" in areas like unregulated financial markets.

"the calling from the inner voice the uh the Jes inos uh the inner voice as uh Carl Yung called it in an essay by that title"

"the unconscious is a lot wiser than uh the the ego and knows more about the source of our motivation"

"these archetypes as Yung called them these are portraits of instinct they form themselves into vocational representations and this is what erson called a vocational archetype"

"a meditation is an interaction where the student is being asked to bring things out of themselves to the table"

"dreams have a perspective significance they point to the Future there's a a teologicos to dreams"

"the first figure that we encounter in relationship to the unconscious according to Yung is the Shadow"

"God speaks through symbols uh erson said in that tongs of Jeopardy uh article and that's true Yung knew that and so did the ancient Hebrews"

"the refusal of the call is the chapter in Joseph Campbell's book the hero with a thousand faces where he narrates the story of Jonah and the whale where Jonah refuses his call call out of fear"

"whosoever is true to your own inexorable self uh a great great Delight will be experienced"

"the more you look at your dreams the more you'll see the violence of the unconscious"

"for man thinks logically he feels he can understand only what he can reduce to reason in its terms but God acts symbolically confounding man's logic"

"the inner reality concealed in the heart of things which human logic never perceives shakes the mind out of a dream of su superficial well-being a dream that was actually leading to disaster"