Beyond Borders: Rebuilding Internationalism, Economic Patriotism, and Global Justice in an Age of Globalization

This podcast episode delves into the complex interplay of transnational equality, economic globalization, and the future of internationalism. The speaker advocates for a form of democratic or federal socialism, envisioning a world with progressive taxation and a rebuilt international system. A central critique is leveled against the current international legal framework, which is described as hypocritical for enabling the wealthy to evade common duties through capital flight, thereby fostering public resentment towards internationalism and inadvertently empowering right-wing populists. The discussion highlights the urgent need to control capital and trade flows to prevent nativist ideologies from dominating the discourse on labor and identity, warning that the so-called progressives often end up defending the beneficiaries of globalization, making future change difficult.

The conversation extends to climate change, where the speaker criticizes tradable carbon emission credits as an excuse for Western nations to avoid genuine emission reductions, pointing out the historical disproportion of cumulative emissions from the US and Europe. A crucial distinction is made between country-to-country redistribution for climate finance, which is deemed a "dead end" due to nationalist resistance, and a class-based approach. The proposed solution involves targeting billionaires and large multinational corporations, regardless of their location, with specific tax rates to fund climate initiatives in the Global South, particularly in countries most vulnerable to climate change. This approach is presented as the only viable way to gain public acceptance for international climate action.

Regarding borders, the speaker argues that principled reasons for restricting free circulation diminish significantly if public services like education, healthcare, housing, and transportation are adequately planned and funded. While acknowledging that Europe is not currently open enough to migrants, the core issue is framed as a failure of social justice and an ambitious egalitarian agenda, rather than the magnitude of migrant flows. The left's political vulnerability is explored, with the argument that they have ceded patriotism and belonging to the right. The speaker suggests that progressive parties should articulate their own vision of patriotism, extending it to an "economic patriotism" that obliges companies to contribute to the common good in the countries where they profit, rather than seeking tax havens.

Finally, the episode addresses the roots of populist voting patterns, asserting that job losses in manufacturing due to trade competition are a primary driver for votes for figures like Trump and Le Pen, rather than migrant inflows. The left's failure to address these economic dislocations and their championship of unregulated globalization have inadvertently shifted political discourse towards border control and identity. While acknowledging the role of identity politics, the speaker distinguishes between ethnoreligious identity and a "politics of recognition" that addresses the stigma and lack of dignity felt by those in economically hollowed-out communities, emphasizing that economic and identity issues are deeply intertwined and multi-dimensional.

you cannot just blame the right-wing populist in that case cannot just blame them blame their voters blame them deplorable voter deplorable leaders Etc and you know I think the left party and the center left party in power have to blame themselves and to realize that the way they have built internationalism and globalization has been a Machinery to make normal people ha this

if we don't do something like that where we can control Capital flows trade flows is that we give the floor to the nativist who are going to control labor flows identity people and and this will be ugly

the big you know the elephant of the r here is that the rise of unregulated free trade and and Western enrichment has come with a a dramatic decline of planetary habitability and and which you know is firstly targeting countries in the global South

if you raise issues in terms of country to Country redistribution so you know the us as a rule have to pay France as a rule has to pay this is a dead end because indeed the nationalists are going to war the day

this is why we have to move from a sort of territorial representation of the conflict to to something closer to a class conflict where basically we want billionaires large multinational to pay

the only way to make this acceptable to public opinion in the US in France is to to Target specifically uh you know I High weals large corporations that will pay directly short of that um you know this is going to work

if we plan sufficiently well yeah you know the funding of the Public Services whether it is University Hospital housing uh uh Transportation infrastructure if we plan sufficent sufficiently well all of this I I I don't see any reason to have sort of some deep restriction to free um uh to free circulation but of course that's a big if

it's a mistake to seed patriotism to uh parties of the right uh it seems to me that Social Democratic and Progressive parties should articulate their own conception of what patriotism and belonging mean and perhaps extending it to requiring a certain kind of economic patriotism of companies that would seek tax Havens rather than contribute to the common good in the countries where they made their profits