Vejas Liulevicius on the Ideological Roots and Historical Consequences of Communism, Marxism, Nazism, and Totalitarianism

This episode features Vejas Liulevicius, a historian specializing in Germany and Eastern Europe, who delves into the foundational ideas of Karl Marx and the subsequent development and tragic outcomes of Communist and Nazi ideologies. The discussion begins by dissecting Marx's central tenets, including the concept of "history with a capital H" moving towards a predetermined goal, the "science of revolution," and the inherent utopian elements despite Marx's rejection of utopian socialism. Liulevicius highlights the internal contradictions in Marx's thought, such as the tension between historical inevitability and the role of individual heroism, and how Marx adapted Hegel's dialectical idealism into dialectical materialism, emphasizing class struggle as the driving force of history.

The conversation explores Marx's stages of historical transformation, from primitive communism to capitalism, culminating in the inevitable revolution by the proletariat and the subsequent "dictatorship of the working class" leading to a stateless, classless society where the state would "wither away." Liulevicius points out the vagueness in Marx's vision for the post-revolutionary state and the historical inaccuracies of his predictions, such as the growing misery (Verelendung) of the working class and the dwindling of the middle class, which did not materialize as expected in industrialized nations. He also touches upon the intellectual ferment of the 19th century, placing Marx and Engels within a broader conversation with figures like Darwin, Nietzsche, and Dostoevsky, and emphasizing the profound impact of their intellectual partnership.

A significant portion of the discussion contrasts Marx's vision with that of Russian Anarchist Mikhail Bakunin, highlighting their agreements on revolutionary change but fundamental disagreements on organization and the role of the state. Bakunin's prophetic warnings about the authoritarian potential of hierarchical revolutionary movements are noted, as is the consistent failure of anarchist-communist alliances. The episode also addresses the irony of communism taking root in agrarian Russia rather than industrialized Germany, which Marx had envisioned as the epicenter of revolution, and the Bolsheviks' initial gamble on a German workers' revolution.

Finally, the podcast draws parallels and distinctions between Communist and Nazi ideologies, touching upon Hitler's vision of permanent war and the pursuit of "living space" (Lebensraum) in the East. Liulevicius underscores the devastating human cost of these totalitarian systems, citing the over 100 million deaths attributed to communist ideology in the 20th century, and discusses phenomena like man-made famines and negative selection under Soviet rule. The episode serves as a profound historical analysis of the origins, theoretical underpinnings, and catastrophic real-world consequences of some of the most destructive political movements in human history.

a horrific man-made famine not a natural disaster not bad Harvest but a man-made famine as a result of then the compulsion that gets used by the Soviet state to extract those resources cordoning off the area not allowing staring starving people to uh to escape

mediocrity is comparatively much safer than Talent

Hitler and himler envisioned permanent war on the Eastern Front not a peace treaty not a settlement not a border but a constant moving of the border every generation hundreds of miles east in order to keep winning more and more living space

The Communist ideology that has led to over 100 million deaths in the 20th century

Marx insisted that history has a purpose that history is not just random events but that rather it's history we might say with a capital H history moving in a deliberate direction history having a goal a a a a direction that it was predestined to move in

to call someone a utopian was precisely to argue that you're not scientific you're not rational you are not laying out the iron laws of History you're merely hoping for the best and that might be laudable but it was fundamentally unrealistic

capitalism is the exploitation of Man by man and communism is the exact opposite

what Marx did was to take this this characteristic insistence of Hegel that that history is moving in a meaningful and discernable way towards the realization of an idea and flipped it on its head Marx insisted that Hegel had so much that was right in his thinking but what he had neglected to keep in mind was that in fact history is is is based on matter so hence dialectical materialism

the confidence of being on the right side of history and there are few things that are as intoxicating as being convinced that your actions not only are right in the abstract but are also destined to be successful and also that you have the rigor of science backing you in your journey towards the truth

the history of all existing societies is the history of class struggles

Revolution is necessary as part of the process of a subjugated class coming to awareness of its own historical role

the state will eventually wither away so there won't be need for it

The passion for Destruction is also a creative passion