Michael Malice on The White Pill, 20th Century Ideologies, and the Enduring Nature of Man

This special holiday episode features Michael Malice discussing his new book, "The White Pill: A Tale of Good and Evil," which explores the darkest aspects of 20th-century history, particularly the Soviet Union and communism, while offering a thread of hope. Malice introduces the concept of the "white pill" as an antidote to the "black pill"—a deeply cynical and apathetic worldview that gives up on the world despite acknowledging its suffering. The white pill, in contrast, acknowledges evil but refuses to surrender to despair, advocating for continued striving and hope. The conversation delves into the historical evolution and distinctions between socialism, communism, and anarchism at the turn of the 20th century, highlighting how these terms were often used interchangeably and the core disagreements between figures like Marx and Bakunin regarding the role of the state.

The discussion meticulously unpacks the historical context of early socialist thought, emphasizing its scientific and inevitable claims, and the belief that technology and rational management could eliminate suffering and waste. Malice explains that early socialism encompassed a broad spectrum, from state-centric approaches (Marx) to stateless workers' collectives (Bakunin), all aiming for a stateless end-state where human nature would be remade. A significant point of contention was the role of violence in achieving these revolutionary goals, with some advocating for gradual change through the ballot box (Fabian socialists) and others for immediate, violent overthrow. Malice expresses his personal skepticism about violence as an effective tool for positive change, arguing that it often leads to authoritarianism and unintended, destructive consequences.

Malice steel-mans the case for socialism, acknowledging its compelling moral arguments for ensuring no one falls through the cracks, especially the vulnerable, and addressing the perceived unfairness of inherited wealth. He also touches on the argument that government-controlled media could prevent manipulation by profit-seeking capitalist interests. However, he critiques the Marxist vision of the state withering away as an unrealistic, "Underpants Gnomes"-like progression, lacking a clear mechanism for the transition from full state control to anarchism. He firmly rejects the idea that culture or society can fundamentally change the nature of man, asserting that inherent human preferences for family over strangers or in-group over out-group will always persist, making literal equality an unattainable ideal.

Ultimately, the episode challenges the notion of historical inevitability, viewing the 20th century as a series of "Choose Your Own Adventure" moments rather than a predetermined unfolding of contradictions. Malice reflects on the unpredictability of events like the Bolshevik Revolution and the Great Depression, suggesting that human agency and specific decisions played a crucial role. The conversation concludes with a reflection on Christmas as a powerful symbol of brotherhood, kindness, and magnanimity, contrasting it with the modern glorification of cynicism and advocating for the embrace of joy and hope, aligning with the core message of the white pill.

"the white pill I suppose is even though you acknowledge that there's evil in the world you don't give up"

"the prophecied Marxist Society was one in which the state had famously withered away"

"socialism at that time was used as a broad umbrella it's not used in the term that it means today of necessarily State socialism it just meant the idea of having Society scientifically run"

"violence is the kind of thing where you think you're running it but it's running you"

"when violence happens people get scared and they want the violence stopped immediately and that's a call for authoritarianism"

"it's not a parent on its face that if we all get together and promote a society based on equality and we all chip in that it's gonna really be good for everyone"

"the Venezuelans didn't vote for Venezuela they voted for Sweden they ended up with Venezuela"

"the Marxist vision of the state withering away and becoming anarchism it's really kind of like um The Underpants Gnomes because it's like tell me more well step one you have Mark Tell Me Slowly I'm sorry you have full communism the state's running everything including education step two question mark step three anarchism"

"I don't think that that changes the nature of man"

"history is inevitable and once you start with certain premises the contradictions kind of unfold I think it's ridiculous"

"Christmas is the one time of year where you could be happy and joyous and kind and people don't get to roll their eyes at you they get to stop being too cool for school and they get to be like you know I enjoy your friendship your your my sister my brother my dad my mom whatever"