Keoki Jackson on Lockheed Martin's Engineering Marvels, Deep Space Exploration, and AI in Critical Systems

The conversation with Keoki Jackson, CTO of Lockheed Martin, delves into the company's legacy of engineering marvels, from iconic aircraft like the SR-71 and F-104 Starfighter to its pivotal role in planetary missions like Viking and Apollo. Jackson emphasizes Lockheed Martin's current focus on deep-space human exploration, particularly the Orion spacecraft and the "Mars base camp" concept, aiming for a permanent human presence beyond low-Earth orbit. He highlights the blend of human ingenuity and advanced technology in achieving these ambitious goals, driven by a passion for venturing out toward the stars.

A significant distinction is made between human and robotic exploration, acknowledging the incredible advancements in autonomous systems (e.g., Osiris-Rex mission to asteroid Bennu) while stressing the irreplaceable human capacity for on-the-fly adaptation and problem-solving in unforeseen circumstances, as exemplified by Apollo 13. The discussion also differentiates levels of autonomy, from human-in-the-loop to full autonomy, and the critical need for trust, verification, and validation in AI-enabled systems, especially in safety-of-life critical missions. The challenge is not just to go to space, but to stay, requiring sustained infrastructure and an evolving space economy.

Jackson underscores the importance of a strong "culture of success" and continuous improvement, particularly in the aerospace industry, to ensure safety and mission success in increasingly complex systems. He references Kelly Johnson's 14 principles for the Skunk Works as a model for fostering innovation through small, highly motivated teams shielded from bureaucracy. The development of "digital twins" and model-based systems engineering is presented as a practical approach to simulate and test complex systems, including non-deterministic AI, before deployment, addressing the challenges of developing systems for environments like space where physical testing is limited.

The conversation touches upon the ethical complexities of building military systems in a "grey area between good and evil," framing good engineering and AI research as having a role on the side of good. It explores the broader implications of a future "space economy" driven by sustained human presence and reduced launch costs. The challenges of verifying and validating AI systems that learn and behave unpredictably are highlighted as an active area of research, with implications for trust in autonomous technologies across various critical sectors beyond aerospace, drawing parallels to incidents like the Boeing 737 MAX crashes.

"Lockheed Martin builds military systems that operate in a complicated world that often does not have easy solutions in the grey area between good and evil."

"What is obvious is good engineering and artificial intelligence research has a role to play on the side of good."

"I'm a space junkie junkie that's why I came to MIT that's really what took me ultimately to Lockheed Martin."

"We're building the Orion spacecraft which is the most sophisticated human-rated spacecraft ever built and it's really designed for these deep-space journeys."

"I think the dream long term is to have a permanent presence in space beyond low-earth orbit ultimately with a long-term presence on the moon and then to the planets to Mars."

"I think the big challenge is not so much to go but to stay."

"The thing that we don't know how to replace today is the ability to adapt on the fly to new information."

"Our conviction is the autonomy in more and more AI enabled autonomy is going to be in everything that Lockheed Martin develops and fields."

"This gets into that whole field again you know they're being able to verify and validate that the systems have been and that they will operate the way they're design and the way they're expected and furthermore that they will do that in ways that can be explained and understood and that is an extremely difficult challenge."

"The idea that if you can essentially have a small team of very capable capable people who want to work on really hard problems you can do almost anything."