Kelsi Sheren: War, PTSD, History, and the Human Psyche in Conflict

This episode features Kelsi Sheren, a Canadian Forces veteran and artillery gunner, discussing her experiences in Afghanistan, her battle with severe PTSD, and her reflections on history, human nature, and conflict. The conversation begins with the importance of sharing human stories, particularly from veterans, noting how World War II veterans often remained silent to protect their families from the pain they endured. This silence, while understandable, is argued to be a detriment, as it prevents the propagation of crucial historical lessons and the acknowledgment of the inherent strength and resilience within one's lineage.\n\nThe discussion delves deeply into World War II, a period Kelsi feels a profound, inexplicable connection to. She struggles to comprehend the mass civilian casualties, contrasting it with the localized impact she witnessed in Afghanistan. Lex and Kelsi explore the psychological underpinnings of charismatic leaders like Hitler and Stalin, questioning how human nature allows for such evil and how populations can follow blindly due to fear, group mentality, or a lack of understanding of psychopathic traits. They ponder whether historical events create leaders or if leaders shape events, concluding that an environment of anger and fear often enables charismatic figures to rise, sometimes with devastating and irrational consequences, such as Hitler's later wartime decisions.\n\nThe conversation then shifts to the complex trauma experienced by individuals like Yeonmi Park, who escaped North Korea. They explore the profound psychological impact of growing up in an abusive system where suffering is normalized, and the paradoxical burden of hope that comes with realizing one's abuse and the existence of a better alternative. Kelsi reflects on the emotional toll of knowing about ongoing suffering in places like North Korea while living in the Western world, acknowledging the immense geopolitical challenges, particularly involving China, that complicate humanitarian intervention.\n\nKelsi also shares insights into military culture and recruitment, contrasting the US and Russian recruiting videos and advocating for a "harder mindset" and physical conditioning for soldiers, alongside robust mental health support. She recounts her own journey to the military, influenced by a vivid memory of 9/11 and an inspiring encounter with a World War II veteran. Her competitive nature, honed through Taekwondo and rugby, is highlighted, along with a deeply personal story of betrayal by a trusted coach, illustrating how early trauma and anger can shape an individual's path and drive, even towards military service.

"the worse the tragedy the less they talk about it"

"the lessons from that history are not then propagated through you and also there's something about the strength you carry with you knowing that that's in your blood those great heroes are in your blood and that suffering overcoming that suffering is in your blood"

"it's almost fascinating that human nature can allow for that and then also it's fascinating that so many people can follow leaders like that with with the pride and with the love of country"

"I'm really curious about why people do what they do like deeply deeply curious about it"

"when there's this environment of anger and fear charismatic leaders can take over"

"the insanity of murdering some of the best germans yeah uh is i it makes no sense"

"there are certain things there's certain atrocities that you see that it doesn't matter the therapy that you do"

"when you give people hope and you make them realize that they're suffering you're putting a burden on them that's the first step on a long journey"

"I think we need harder I need I think we need people to be harder I think it's acceptable and okay to say that our soldiers need to have a harder mindset a stronger mindset a better mentality and mental health support going into the service and a harder body"

"I used to eat sleep and breathe whatever that man said from four years old on... the idea that somebody could do something like that yeah that really messed me up"