The Evolving Power and Leadership of the American Presidency: From Lincoln to the Modern Era

The conversation with historian Jeremi Suri delves into the nature of presidential power and leadership, emphasizing its dramatic evolution since Abraham Lincoln's era. Suri argues that the office of the president is not timeless but has transformed significantly, particularly in communication, public scrutiny, and the scale of executive power. Lincoln is presented as the "greatest president" due to his ability to give voice to the voiceless, his mastery of language, and his embodiment of opportunity and self-reliance, driven by a hunger for independence rather than mere power. His early life experiences, including his dependence on his father, are posited as foundational to his later anti-slavery stance and his vision of freedom as self-ownership.

A key distinction is made between Lincoln's 19th-century presidency, where he mobilized people through words and had to appeal to governors for military support, and the modern presidency, which wields immense direct military and economic power, including the ability to initiate targeted assassinations. The discussion also differentiates between various leadership styles, contrasting Lincoln's disarming storytelling approach with the perceived one-on-one effectiveness of figures like Hitler and Stalin, and highlighting the importance of listening and strategic foresight in leadership. Freedom is nuanced as the right to make choices and be independent, rather than the ability to control all outcomes, reflecting a more realistic understanding of human agency.

For effective leadership, Suri stresses the importance of listening, strategic planning (thinking "three or four moves down the chessboard"), and the ability to tell stories to persuade and disarm. He also highlights the critical role of controlling access to the president and hiring people of integrity, not just loyalists, to ensure difficult questions are asked and uncomfortable truths are brought forward. The need for structural reforms in government, particularly regarding the military and decision-making processes, is emphasized to prevent presidents from being unduly pushed by existing institutional biases, which can lead to unintended policy outcomes.

The podcast explores the tension between individual agency and structural forces in shaping presidential actions, using Barack Obama's presidency as an example where institutional pressures often outweighed initial intentions to reduce military engagement. It raises concerns about the "inhuman" scale of modern presidential power and its potential dangers in a democracy, a scale unimaginable to the founders. The discussion touches on human nature, the psychological aspects of leadership (charisma, quickness of thought, instinct for human worries), and the ethical dilemmas faced by leaders regarding secret information and potential war crimes, underscoring the profound responsibility and moral challenges inherent in the highest office.

The greatest American president was Abraham Lincoln.

Lincoln made politics more than about power he made it an art he made it a source of liberation.

Leaders and presidents are at their best when they're doing more than just manipulating institutions in power when they're helping the people imagine a better world.

Freedom for him did not mean the right to do anything you want to do but it meant the right to be secure from being dependent upon someone else.

Everything is politics if you want to get anything done.

The best leaders are the listeners not the talkers.

Presidents now can communicate with the public directly... that was unthinkable Lincoln in order to get his message across often wrote letters to newspapers.

The power the president has... it's inhuman actually and this is one of my critiques of how the office has changed this one person has power on a scale that's that's I think dangerous in a democracy.

Structure has a lot more effect on us than we like to admit which is to say that the circumstances the institutions around us drive our behavior more than we like to think.

It's a good idea to have people of integrity who you can rely on and who you think will ask those right questions and then pass that down through their organization.