China's Enduring Tensions: From Mao's Chaos to Xi's Order, Confucianism, and the Legacy of Tiananmen

Jeffrey Wasserstrom, a historian of modern China, delves into the complex interplay of historical figures and philosophical traditions shaping contemporary China. The discussion begins by drawing parallels and distinctions between current leader Xi Jinping and Mao Zedong. Both leaders are characterized by intense personality cults, a phenomenon suppressed after Mao's death until Xi's ascent. However, they diverge significantly in their approach to governance: Mao reveled in chaos and disruption, drawing inspiration from figures like the Monkey King, while Xi Jinping prioritizes order, stability, and predictability. This fundamental difference extends to their views on Confucianism, which Mao rejected as feudal but Xi embraces as a foundation for stable hierarchies and clear social categories, creating a fascinating tension with the progressive, struggle-oriented tenets of Marxism-Leninism.

The conversation then explores the enduring influence of Confucianism, a philosophy rooted in hierarchical relationships and a conservative view of history that seeks to reclaim a past golden age. Key Confucian ideas include the belief that individuals are shaped by learning and the emphasis on education and meritocracy, which historically led to the development of China's civil service exams. This tradition fostered an optimism about human nature and the potential for moral transformation through emulation of exemplary figures. However, the system of meritocracy is not without its challenges, as the concept of the "Mandate of Heaven" provides a moral justification for rebellion against an unjust ruler, suggesting a universe with a moral dimension that validates successful uprisings.

This inherent tension within meritocracy, particularly when confronted with corruption and nepotism, is highlighted as a significant driver of public outrage. The 1989 Tiananmen Square protests, often misunderstood in the West as solely a movement for democracy, are recontextualized as a broader effort to compel the Communist Party to live up to its own stated ideals of reform and openness, while simultaneously protesting corruption and nepotism. The protests also reflected a desire for greater freedom of speech and cultural liberalization, as symbolized by incidents like the suppression of dancing at a rock concert. The movement's escalation, particularly with the involvement of workers, ultimately led to the brutal crackdown by the People's Liberation Army.

The legacy of Tiananmen Square, including the iconic "Tank Man" image, is discussed as a potent symbol of the government's loss of its mandate to rule, an image the regime has actively sought to suppress. The historical role of students as a vanguard in Chinese protests, dating back to the May Fourth Movement, underscores the deep cultural value placed on scholarly pursuits and the potential for students to catalyze broader social movements. The episode concludes by emphasizing the ongoing contradictions within Chinese political thought, where leaders like Xi Jinping attempt to fuse disparate elements of China's multi-thousand-year history—from Mao's revolutionary spirit to Confucian stability—into a cohesive nationalist narrative, often smoothing over inherent ideological conflicts to project an image of strength and greatness on the world stage.

"The biggest commonality of them is that they're both the subject of personality cults."

"Mao really reveled in chaos in turning things upside down... Xiinping is very orderly is very concerned with kind of stability and predictability."

"Confucian traditions are based on kind of stable hierarchies for the most part and sort of clear categories of superior and inferior. Whereas Mao liked things to be turned upside down."

"Confucianism was a kind of conservative or even backwardlooking thing. It wasn't trying to it wasn't arguing for progress. It was arguing for reclaiming a pure golden age in the past."

"people are pretty much alike at birth but become differentiated via learning."

"there was often an idea that people could be could be remolded potentially."

"if he doesn't act like a true emperor if he's not morally upstanding then heaven will remove his heaven will remove its its mandate to him and then there's no obligation to show deference for a ruler who's not behaving like a true ruler."

"some of the biggest protests in in China have been about this sense of nepotism which really seems to subvert this whole idea of kind of meritocracy."

"the 1989 protest at Tiana even though kind of in the the western press in particular was discussed as a movement for democracy but a lot of the first posters that went up that got students really angry were criticisms of corruption within the communist party and nepotism."

"the People's Liberation Army looking like an invading force, not like a stabilizing force."