Ben Goertzel on Abolishing Involuntary Death and Pain: Transhumanism, AGI, and the Meaning of Life

This podcast clip features Ben Goertzel discussing profound philosophical and technological questions surrounding human existence, particularly the abolition of involuntary death and pain. Goertzel advocates for a future where individuals have the choice to live indefinitely and to control their experience of pain, viewing involuntary death as a "plague." He contrasts this with the romanticization of suffering and death, which he believes will be seen as absurd in the future, akin to historical religious fanaticism. The conversation delves into the idea of a "pain dial" in the brain, suggesting that while humans might currently find meaning in overcoming suffering, a future with advanced neuroscience could allow for its complete alleviation, raising questions about what constitutes a fulfilling life without it.

Goertzel explores the nature of human motivational systems, suggesting that our current biological makeup might predispose us to seek situations where gratification in the large scale requires ungratification in the small, drawing parallels to musical aesthetics where "surprising fulfillment of expectations" creates satisfaction. He posits that if humans require suffering to be satisfied, this might disqualify us from becoming the "super AGI" – a fundamentally healthier and more benevolent system that doesn't need an analog of pain. The discussion then shifts to the meaning of life, which Goertzel distills into three core values: joy, growth, and choice, arguing that these can continue indefinitely and are best pursued through transhumanism and evolving beyond the current human form.

He outlines several promising avenues in super longevity research, including CRISPR and gene editing, stem cell injections for tissue regeneration, and novel molecules like spiroligamers designed to reverse the stiffening of the extracellular matrix, a key aspect of aging. Goertzel emphasizes the critical need for an integrated, massively distributed, and privacy-protecting database of all biological knowledge, coupled with massive funding for machine learning and AGI research aimed at solving biology. He also calls for regulatory reform to allow individuals to pursue radical therapies and for better cloud-based platforms for automated experimentation.

Finally, Goertzel highlights a significant societal challenge: the misallocation of resources. He argues that trillions of dollars are readily spent on bailing out banks or addressing crises like COVID, yet a fraction of that investment could revolutionize longevity and human potential by funding a holistic bio-AI and bio-simulation infrastructure. He laments that current biological data remains siloed in hospitals, unused for the collective advancement of human health and longevity, underscoring a critical gap between technological potential and societal implementation.

my my goal with longevity research is to abolish the plague of involuntary death i don't think people should die unless they choose to die

people who thought death gives meaning to life so we should all die they will look at that 50 years from now the way we now look at the anabaptists in the year 1000 who gave away all their positions went on top of the mountain for jesus for jesus to come and bring them to the right to the ascension

once we get a little better at neuroscience we'll be able to go in and adjust the brain so that pain doesn't hurt anymore

the question isn't whether you would turn the pain down to zero all all the time would you opt to have the dial or not

if it is true that's one of the things that makes us and disqualified to be the be the supe the super agi

the key to musical aesthetics is the surprising fulfillment of expectations like you you want something that will fulfill the expectations are listed in the prior part of the music but in a way with a bit of a twist that that surprises you

three values joy growth and choice

much of the meaning i see in human life is to create something better than humans and and go beyond human life

dying seems to inhibit your potential for personal growth considerably as as far as we know