Ben Askren on Wrestling, MMA, Jake Paul, and the Psychology of Competition and Loss

This episode features Ben Askren, a decorated wrestler and MMA fighter, discussing his career, high-profile fights, and the underlying philosophy of competition. The conversation begins with Askren's candid analysis of the Jake Paul vs. Tyron Woodley boxing match, where he expresses his belief that Woodley won, highlighting the specific rule set of boxing compared to MMA and the importance of urgency in a fight. He reflects on his own boxing match against Jake Paul, acknowledging his lack of boxing skill at that point, but emphasizing the financial opportunity and personal enjoyment derived from the training and build-up, despite the loss. Askren reveals he was at a low point physically, recovering from hip surgery, which significantly impacted his preparation and performance, and he views the experience as a valuable, if not victorious, endeavor.

The discussion then shifts to Askren's illustrious wrestling career, particularly his interactions and insights gained from training with elite wrestlers like Jordan Burroughs. Askren details Burroughs' remarkable inquisitiveness and continuous evolution of his wrestling style, from his explosive double leg to sophisticated hand fighting and defensive sequences, challenging the notion that elite athletes become static in their approach. He delves into the hypothetical folkstyle match between his peak self and Burroughs, suggesting that Burroughs' folkstyle game had exploitable weaknesses, particularly from the top position, unlike his more formidable freestyle game. The conversation also touches upon the intense rivalry between Jordan Burroughs and Kyle Dake, and the strategic disadvantages Dake faced in previous trials due to the seeding rules.

A core theme explored is Askren's unique psychological approach to competition and loss. He articulates a philosophy that balances the inherent "hate to lose" characteristic of champions with an equally crucial drive to "seek out challenges." Askren attributes this perspective to his early wrestling career, where he wasn't immediately dominant and learned to accept losing as an integral part of the competitive process. This mindset allowed him to actively seek out the best opponents, prioritizing experience and challenge over an undefeated record, a practice he maintained throughout his career, even when it led to losses against opponents perceived as less elite.

Ultimately, the podcast provides a deep dive into the mind of a combat athlete, exploring the nuances of different martial arts disciplines, the relentless pursuit of improvement, and the complex interplay of physical readiness, mental fortitude, and strategic adaptation. Askren's reflections offer practical insights into managing expectations, embracing opportunities beyond pure athletic victory, and understanding that true growth often comes from confronting and learning from challenges, regardless of the outcome. His perspective underscores the importance of a growth mindset, continuous learning, and a genuine love for the competitive process itself, rather than solely focusing on the end result.

"I have an issue with not being able to give really exact answers so I hate giving you an answer that like I don't feel like is 100 calculated."

"I wanted to do it I had an enjoyable time training and in the build up obviously I wasn't skillful enough to to get to win but if I even even despite the fact that I know it's going to have what happened if someone asked me to do it again I probably would have done it again."

"I knew I wasn't going to be a full-time boxer so it's like how do I put a boxing camp together."

"All of my stand up in mixed martial arts was predicated on how do I get through the two or three punches that are going to come at me in the time I need to get a hold of them."

"A great champion has to hate to lose like you said right but on this other hand you have to have someone who seeks out challenges right because if you don't have that you're never gonna reach your full potential either."

"I always just love the challenge I enjoyed competing thoroughly right and I understood from a young age because it wasn't very good losing's a part of it you're not always going to win."

"I didn't lose for nine years and like that's that's pretty rare I didn't plan for that to happen that was just what happened."

"The level of inquisit inquisition that's a hard word inquisitiveness he has is really impressive and then it's obvious why he got to the level he did because he's figuring out all these little situations."

"I think the freestyle Jordan Burroughs puzzle is a lot more difficult to solve than the folk style Jordan Burroughs puzzle."